It's time to close the bar on Iran...

by **a_lost_packet_** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:45 pm

Iran has bellied up to the bar for too long now. They've basked in the world media spotlight and have been plied with far too many drinks for their own good.

Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design – secret report

Exclusive: Watchdog fears Tehran has key component to put bombs in missiles

The UN's nuclear watchdog has asked Iran to explain evidence suggesting that Iranian scientists have experimented with an advanced nuclear warhead design, the Guardian has learned.

The very existence of the technology, known as a "two-point implosion" device, is officially secret in both the US and Britain, but according to previously unpublished documentation in a dossier compiled by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iranian scientists may have tested high-explosive components of the design. The development was today described by nuclear experts as "breathtaking" and has added urgency to the effort to find a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear crisis.

The sophisticated technology, once mastered, allows for the production of smaller and simpler warheads than older models. It reduces the diameter of a warhead and makes it easier to put a nuclear warhead on a missile.....

This is unacceptable, if true. This is more than just developing a nuclear bomb. This is about rushing development of a nuclear warhead. This is about lobbing one a few thousand miles to Israel on top of a missile or being able to attack US bases. If development also continues on long-range missiles, this is also about Iran being able to threaten the United States.

It's time to shut them down.

Frankly, I'm getting a bit weary of listening to Iranian prattle. They have been constantly insulting anyone that offers them a question and refuse to stop daring and double-dog-daring the US to do anything with their "Death to USA" slogans, bumper-stickers, parades and public speeches. I'm really sick of it. If you needle someone long enough and dare them to punch you in the jaw you're eventually going to find yourself getting punched in the jaw and staring at sky.

Irans bluster and chest-puffing seem to be a Middle Easter affectation. Libya did it - Slapped. Iraq did it - Slapped. Afghanistan did it - Slapped. Now, Iran won't quit doing it... Surely, they're simply not dumb enough to think that we're going to eventually grow tired of this game and go away? Or, are we in such a state of exhaustion we're simply going to throw up our hands and take our ball and go home? Is that really what Middle Eastern diplomacy is all about - Out insult the other guy until he's somehow too embarrassed to continue? Screw that, look at Iraq and Afghanistan. We don't give two craps in a paper cup about looking embarrassed. Ackmadinanojob doesn't quite get it...

No, I don't want war in Iran. I don't want a US strike either. But, wtf I want doesn't have anything to do with what is the most practical and efficient means to solve a problem. Demonstrators are lining the streets in Iran asking their Messenger of Awesomeness Obama, who likes to go overseas and make pretty speeches aimed at winning Middle Eastern elections instead of fostering understanding, to show his support for them. Well, the irons have been in the friggin fire on this issue for years now. The IAEA, UN, Russia & The Big Five and TPTB have repeatedly bent over backwards and yanked their trousers down in hopes of placating Akmandinagottajob and his traveling mime-show of "diplomats." Heck, we even have FRANCE on board! Nobody touches France's nuclear-tech cash cow without giving them something substantial and even they're ticked off at Iran! What is Obama going to do if this turns out to be true? What is he going to say when someone finally pulls a dragon out of an Iranian hat? Ooops?

Iran supplied weapons and materials to Iraqi insurgents - We do nothing. Iran supplied trainers and combat soldiers to Iraqi insurgency efforts - we let them go. Iran supplies weapons to Afghani insurgents - We do nothing. Iran supplies weapons and financial support to Hezbollah - We do nothing. Iran plays "let's start building a nuke and threaten everyone with it" and we do.. what? We're sending a constant stream of clear messages to Iran - "Do whatever you want! We'll happily do anything possible to not do anything about it in order to maintain peace."

The only person who ever seemed to have achieved anything in the Middle East using "Peace" as a weapon was Jimmy Carter. Now, people may not have liked him but, the man happened to be in the right place at the right time with the USA having the right image to make his plan work. Then, someone shot somebody and a lot of progress was lost... Today, we've got the image of the Bad Boy on the block. Well, so be it. If we can't make that image work or change it and then make THAT work, we only have two choices - Get the heck out or get ready to rumble.

by **mark_d_s** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:29 pm

If I were an American, I wouldn't be so worried. IF that report is accurate, Iran's first targets would be Israel first, followed by us in the UK.

But I'm not too worried by this. Israel won't tollerate this for much longer. The following is a quote from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 341737.stm regarding the recent arms cache found near Cyprus:

"The seizure comes after Israel carried out a joint military exercise with the Americans. The unspoken assumption of that exercise - for many in Israel at least - is that Israel will one day carry out military strikes against Iran's nuclear programme. Tehran will then hit back itself and also activate Hamas and Hezbollah."

The middle east has been a powder keg for so long now I think it's enevitable that widespread war will break out. I hope I'm wrong.

by **jim48** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:20 pm

"Death to America!" has been their business strategy since Jimmy Cahtah was trying to be a president, and that's ironic, because so is Obama. I'm content to let the Israelis handle things. Why should we get our hands dirty? Oh, I'm sure we'll help out behind-the-scenes. Let's hope they don't use more nukes than they have to.

by **jimglenn** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:20 pm

2 point detonation is old hat, this article is probably a plant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_we ... _implosion

Two-point hollow-pit implosion

A more efficient two-point implosion system uses two high explosive lenses and a hollow pit.

A hollow plutonium pit was the original plan for the 1945 Fat Man bomb, but there was not enough time to develop and test the implosion system for it. A simpler solid-pit design was considered more reliable, given the time restraint, but it required a heavy U-238 tamper, a thick aluminum pusher, and three tons of high explosives.

After the war, interest in the hollow pit design was revived. Its obvious advantage is that a hollow shell of plutonium, shock-deformed and driven inward toward its empty center, would carry momentum into its violent assembly as a solid sphere. It would be self-tamping, requiring a smaller U-238 tamper, no aluminum pusher, and less high explosive. The hollow pit made levitation obsolete.

The Fat Man bomb had two concentric, spherical shells of high explosives, each about 10 inches (25 cm) thick. The inner shell drove the implosion. The outer shell consisted of a soccer-ball pattern of 32 high explosive lenses, each of which converted the convex wave from its detonator into a concave wave matching the contour of the outer surface of the inner shell. If these 32 lenses could be replaced with only two, the high explosive sphere could become an ellipsoid (prolate spheroid) with a much smaller diameter.

by **Shpaget** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:30 am

They're developing nukes. So what?

What about 9 countries that have them, 20+ other that are developing them openly and who know how many secretly? It's ok for them to have them, but not Iran? That is hypocritical.

by **nimbus** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:02 am

Shpaget wrote:They're developing nukes. So what?

What about 9 countries that have them, 20+ other that are developing them openly and who know how many secretly? It's ok for them to have them, but not Iran? That is hypocritical.

Which countries? You could have Switzerland in that group of 9/20 countries, and it'd break your argument.

by **dragon04** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:43 am

Shpaget wrote:They're developing nukes. So what?

What about 9 countries that have them, 20+ other that are developing them openly and who know how many secretly? It's ok for them to have them, but not Iran? That is hypocritical.

So? Certainly you're not suggesting that we just let Iran have nuclear weapons because we're hypocrites if we don't, are you?

There are some times when being a hypocrite is just fine and dandy or better put, necessary. Like when whack job leaders of belligerent foreign nations want to develop or procure nuclear weapons that they could employ as a tool of their foreign policies.

ZOMG!!! W3'R TEH HYP0KRITZ0RZ!!! ZOMG!!!

by **PiotrSatan** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:58 am

Everybody has right to protect themselves. You, yanks are not police of the world so you should stick to your business and just be ready in case someone starts nuclear war. I mean, Israel has nuclear weapons. If Israel has them, Iran feels threatened because if Israelis feel like beginning war with them, they are most likely to lose. And if both nations have nuclear weaponry, nobody would dare to attack each other. Anyway, I am from Europe. European Union is like center of the world so, whatever. When you will all be in flames, Europe will be last stand for human civilization. Feel free to get citizenship now, before it is too late!

by **rubicondsrv** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:01 am

PiotrSatan wrote:Everybody has right to protect themselves. You, yanks are not police of the world so you should stick to your business and just be ready in case someone starts nuclear war. I mean, Israel has nuclear weapons. If Israel has them, Iran feels threatened because if Israelis feel like beginning war with them, they are most likely to lose. And if both nations have nuclear weaponry, nobody would dare to attack each other. Anyway, I am from Europe. European Union is like center of the world so, whatever. When you will all be in flames, Europe will be last stand for human civilization. Feel free to get citizenship now, before it is too late!

this is an official statement:

please cease your trolling

by **Boris_Badenov** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:15 am

PiotrSatan wrote:Everybody has right to protect themselves. I mean, Israel has nuclear weapons. If Israel has them, Iran feels threatened because if Israelis feel like beginning war with them, they are most likely to lose.

If the islamic world put down their weapons today there would be peace tomorrow. If the Israeli's put down their weapons today there would be a bloodbath tomorrow.
The Israeli's have (possibly :twisted:

) had nukes for more than 40 years & never used them, so please prove my above assertion wrong.

by **nimbus** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:10 am

PiotrSatan wrote:Anyway, I am from Europe.

Piotrsatan redux

by **KickLaBuka** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:35 pm

You guys have been obsessed with putting technology on the end of a stick for too long. Nuclear fuel is cleaner and cost effective. Technology cannot be hidden just because you like having the sticks and dealing in oil. Besides, free energy doesn't even have to be nuclear, which is completely safe. Why don't you focus your time on things that matter, like future generations that don't have to live in fear from some wackos that like things on sticks and scaring everybody to protect technology and power?

In WWI, the United States developed ways to remove shrapnel from soldier's eyes, and they shared it with the world. Now, the Military has gone long down a path of technology that can help the everyday citizen of the world. It is time to share with the people. Are you so far up oilman's backside that you would really turn your back on your own people? Or are you just petrified that you might not feel as important? Damnit, be proud of it and you can be part of it!

by **a_lost_packet_** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:12 pm

PiotrSatan wrote:Everybody has right to protect themselves. You, yanks are not police of the world

I wish someone would tell the World that so they don't pick up and dial the USA whenever THEY have a problem.

OH NOES! We need food! Call the USA!
OH NOES! Somebody is oppressing us! Call the USA!
OH NOES! We're being teh invaded! Call the USA!
OH NOES! A savage dictator is exterminating our people! CALL THE USA!
OH NOES! Our country sucks, has no natural resources other than rocks and our economy is based on bread! Call the USA!

Maybe, just maybe, if nations other than the West stepped up to the plate and made a committed stand to make the world a more stable, better place, we could afford to sit back and do nothing. As it is, what stability we have is enforced by the West. If it wasn't for the USA, Great Britain and a handful of other Nations keeping the peace.. well, I'd hate to see what a modern map would look like. You would have to have redrawn it several times over the past decades. So, say a quiet "Thank you" to people that actually look outside of their borders once in awhile.

so you should stick to your business and just be ready in case someone starts nuclear war.

Here's an idea: How about instead of just sitting by and waiting until radical moronic fanatic lights off a nuclear weapon and kills a whole bunch of people, why don't we stop the beforehand?

I mean, Israel has nuclear weapons. If Israel has them, Iran feels threatened because if Israelis feel like beginning war with them, they are most likely to lose. And if both nations have nuclear weaponry, nobody would dare to attack each other.

How about this idea: The LAST thing Israel wants is War. They want to be left alone. Hey, they're not innocents and they have some issues over there I don't agree with. But, they don't want to go to war. They've got quite a few neighbors that don't really like them very much.

Anyway, I am from Europe. European Union is like center of the world so, whatever. When you will all be in flames, Europe will be last stand for human civilization. Feel free to get citizenship now, before it is too late!

Thanks but, no thanks. I don't want some collective economic organization determining domestic law for me. That is not a legitimate government. Keep your Union and be happy while your rights get flushed down the toilet.

by **a_lost_packet_** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:14 pm

KickLaBuka wrote:You ... ... ..it!

Huh?

by **a_lost_packet_** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:21 pm

Breaking news:
Iran lawmakers: We won't ship uranium abroad
Pressure intensifying on Tehran government to reject U.N.-backed plan
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
Associated Press Writer
updated 8:45 a.m. ET, Sat., Nov . 7, 2009

TEHRAN, Iran - Senior Iranian lawmakers rejected on Saturday any possibility of Tehran shipping uranium abroad for further enrichment, intensifying pressures on the government to reject the U.N.-backed plan altogether.

Prominent conservative lawmaker Alaeddin Boroujerdi said Iran won't ship its low enriched uranium abroad in a single batch or in several shipments, a compromise suggested by some government officials, under any circumstances.

"Nothing will be given of the 1,200 kilograms (of low enriched uranium) ... to the other side in exchange for 20 percent enriched fuel, not in one batch nor in several. It is out of question," the semiofficial ISNA news agency quoted Boroujerdi as saying Saturday....

OK, this is also unacceptable. However, there IS one bright spot in the article:

...Kremlin: Sanctions can't be excluded
On Saturday, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signaled that Moscow could back sanctions against Iran if it fails to take a constructive stance in international talks over its nuclear program.

He told the German magazine Der Spiegel that it would be better to avoid sanctions, but they can't be excluded if there is no progress in the talks....

I have one response to that..

HA! I TOLD YOU SO!

Take that! A few weeks ago, right after Obama cut off his own nose, Russia withdrew their support for sanctions claiming that they were not necessary and that other resolutions could be found.

Then, Iran turns around and throws egg on their face by denying the proposal for processing their nuclear material into fuel. HA! Haaa HA! Now, they're "back on the bandwagon." Silly Russians. Stop treating this as a Cold War and start treating this as a way to establish a relationship with your Western counterparts.

by **Shpaget** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:28 pm

Boris_Badenov wrote:The Israeli's have (possibly ) had nukes for more than 40 years & never used them, so please prove my above assertion wrong.

21 days after the first test US used the bomb on civilians, killing 65 000 instantly (and 200 000 more by long term effect).
Three days later they decided the first one just wasn't big enough.

Truthfully, I would be happier if all religion just disappeared, even if it takes a radioactive mushroom or 50 and even if it takes me with the rest of innocent peace loving people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This planet would be much better off without constant fight over whose god is the real god.
People left behind just might appreciate the peace.

by **KickLaBuka** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:04 pm

Its nice to have a place to get the worst case discussed but try to remember We're on the same team. There's a way to get these countries to get along.

by **andrew_t1000** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:32 pm

PiotrSatan wrote:Everybody has right to protect themselves. You, yanks are not police of the world so you should stick to your business and just be ready in case someone starts nuclear war. I mean, Israel has nuclear weapons. If Israel has them, Iran feels threatened because if Israelis feel like beginning war with them, they are most likely to lose. And if both nations have nuclear weaponry, nobody would dare to attack each other. Anyway, I am from Europe. European Union is like center of the world so, whatever. When you will all be in flames, Europe will be last stand for human civilization. Feel free to get citizenship now, before it is too late!

Hate to break it to you but, most of the worlds problems stem from Eurotrash drawing arbitrary lines on the map!
witness Africa, South East Asia, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh just to name a few.

In the event of even a "limited" nuclear exchange, the Northern Hemisphere is toast, for a bloody long time.
Any civilisation that manages to survive after the horror of a nuclear war will be in the Southern Hemisphere.
Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and South America will be the countries keeping the lights of civilisation from going out.
European arrogance is what has gotten us into this mess, along with 2 world wars and the Vietnam war.
So after a 1000 years of being at each others throats, you finally get your act together?
And look how that is going!

Time for a reality check mate!
Next time you lot decide to set the world on fire, Australia, New Zealand and the US might not be there to put out the fire and help rebuild.

by **rubicondsrv** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:54 pm

Please cease the insult slinging in this thread or it will be moved to politics :!:

also please do not feed the troll
thank you for your cooperation.

by **Smersh** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:04 pm

a_lost_packet_ wrote: ... This is unacceptable, if true. This is more than just developing a nuclear bomb. This is about rushing development of a nuclear warhead. This is about lobbing one a few thousand miles to Israel on top of a missile or being able to attack US bases. If development also continues on long-range missiles, this is also about Iran being able to threaten the United States ...

Oh I wouldn't worry about it. Ammajinnythingie has always insisted their nuclear research is for peaceful purposes, so this story in the Grauniad can't possibly be true. I do wish these newspapers wouldn't make things up just to fill up space. :roll:

Actually, I've believed for a long time that most of the wars and conflicts in the world are caused by the arms dealers. The Middle East is a very lucrative marketplace for them, to help them maintain their yachts in the South of France. Send a hunter-killer sub into Monaco harbour and we might begin to get somewhere.

The Arms Trade is Big Business

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